Criminal Justice & the Rule of Law Executive Branch

Lawfare Daily: How are the Courts Doing?

Natalie K. Orpett, Philip Martin Pro, Jeremy Fogel, Jen Patja
Wednesday, October 8, 2025, 7:00 AM
Two former federal judges discuss how courts are handling the enormous stress being put on the legal system. 
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On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett is joined by Judge Philip Pro and Judge Jeremy Fogel. Both are retired federal court judges who are members of a new organization, the Article III Coalition, which advocates for an independent judiciary. They talk about how the courts are faring amidst the enormous stresses of the day: a huge number of legal challenges to Trump administration actions, a judiciary under constant attack from critics—including several instances of real violence—and serious intra-branch tensions. And they discuss why it is so crucial that judges retain their independence—and how to make sure they do. 

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Criminal Justice & the Rule of Law Executive Branch
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Natalie K. Orpett

Natalie K. Orpett

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Natalie Orpett is the executive editor of Lawfare and deputy general counsel of the Lawfare Institute. She was previously an attorney at the law firm Jenner & Block, where she focused on investigations and government controversies, and also maintained an active pro bono practice. She served as civilian counsel to a defendant in the Guantanamo Military Commissions for more than eight years.
Philip Martin Pro

Philip Martin Pro

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Philip Pro is a former United States district judge for the District of Nevada. He is currently an arbitrator and mediator in private practice.
Jeremy Fogel

Jeremy Fogel

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Jeremy Fogel is a former United States district judge for the Northern District of California. He is now the executive director of the Berkeley Judicial Institute.
Jen Patja

Jen Patja

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Jen Patja is the editor of the Lawfare Podcast and Rational Security, and serves as Lawfare’s Director of Audience Engagement. Previously, she was Co-Executive Director of Virginia Civics and Deputy Director of the Center for the Constitution at James Madison's Montpelier, where she worked to deepen public understanding of constitutional democracy and inspire meaningful civic participation.
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