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Rational Security: The “Live from Aspen” Edition

Scott R. Anderson, Shane Harris, Mark Goldberg, Alexander Ward
Monday, July 21, 2025, 12:00 PM
Scott Anderson, Shane Harris, Mark Goldberg, and Alex Ward talked about some of the issues that have emerged at this year’s Aspen Forum

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Scott recorded this week’s special episode live from the 2025 Aspen Security Forum, where he sat down with a panel of top national security journalists—including co-host emeritus Shane Harris of The Atlantic, Mark Goldberg of the Global Dispatches podcast, and Alex Ward of the Wall Street Journal—to talk about some of the issues that have emerged at and around this year’s Forum, including:

  • “Putting the Ass in Aspen.” Twenty-four hours before the Aspen Security Forum was set to begin, the Defense Department barred more than a dozen officials who had been publicly set to participate, for months, on the grounds that the Forum promotes “the evils of globalism.” What does this tell us about the Trump administration’s relationship to the foreign policy establishment?
  • “Rolling Alone.” While U.S. officials were in short supply at the Forum, foreign officials were not, as foreign ministers and other officials from Europe, Asia, and other corners of the world had a heavy representation on the panels. And while those panels often addressed different topics, at least one common theme tended to emerge across them: the challenges of the new era of major power competition, especially at a moment when the United States seems especially skeptical of traditional alliances and multilateral institutions. What did we learn about the challenges these countries are facing? And what does it mean for the United States’ ability to strategically compete?
  • “Deus Ex Machina.” If there is one topic that was represented at almost every panel at this year’s Forum, it is the question of Artificial Intelligence — how important it is, what it will do to solve the world’s problems, new problems it will cause, and all it will cost to win the race to perfecting it. But is AI really that important? Or does its ubiquity in national security conversation reflect more hype than substance?

For object lessons, Shane shared his latest piece for The Atlantic about an old man, a dog, and the CIA’s efforts to keep them apart. Scott endorsed the Aspen Security Forum itself and urged those not in attendance to check out Aspen’s recordings of the event—as well as the recordings of various side conversations he made, which will be up on the Lawfare Daily feed later this week. Mark recommended his new podcast with Anjali Dayal on the United Nations, To Save Us From Hell, which they release as part of his U.N. Dispatch newsletter. And Alex shared his quest to read a book about each U.S. president, what it’s taught him about how weird the presidents are, and the online community that’s helping him get through it.


Scott R. Anderson is a fellow in Governance Studies at the Brookings Institution and a Senior Fellow in the National Security Law Program at Columbia Law School. He previously served as an Attorney-Adviser in the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. Department of State and as the legal advisor for the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq.
Shane Harris is a staff writer at The Atlantic covering national security and intelligence. He can be reached on Signal at shaneharris.64. He has written about intelligence, security, and foreign policy for more than two decades, including as a staff writer for The Washington Post, where he was part of the team that won the 2022 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. In 2023, he co-reported the documentary The Discord Leaks with PBS Frontline, which was nominated for an Emmy for outstanding investigative news coverage. He is the author of two books, The Watchers and @War.
Mark Leon Goldberg is a veteran international affairs journalist who writes the Global Dispatches Substack and hosts the Global Dispatches podcast.
Alexander Ward is a national security reporter at POLITICO and anchor of “National Security Daily.”
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